Meet Carol Grever

  • Carol Grever has been a successful businesswoman and English professor. From personal experience, she's authored two books and produced a documentary on straight spouse recovery. A recognized spokesperson on straight spouse issues, she's appeared on major network TV shows, including "The Oprah Winfrey Show" and "Good Morning America." You can read more about Carol here.

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June 15, 2009

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Jen

I was one of those children. And my parents did not do any of the recommended tips for telling this secret. My mother told me, in anger, that my father was gay. And then she told me not to tell anyone or talk to him about it. A few years later it came out, again by my mother, more publicly. They never divorced but lived together in a volatile relationship until my father's death a few years ago. I respect their decision to stay together but wish they had divorced.

Janet

I outed my ex with the help of clergy. My ex would not acknowledge being gay, and had derailed the conversation about our divorce by announcing (contrary to what we had agreed in counseling) that he was going to FIGHT THIS THING YOUR MOTHER IS DOING TO OUR FAMILY. Because he kept denying his homosexuality yet an openly homosexual friend of his was showing up a lot unannounced and grooming one of my sons secretly, I had to tell them the truth of what was going on. I agree, it is best to not tell them in anger, but I was a basket case with the burden of having to tell them and then face the ridicule, denial, and punishment from him. I was calm, but fell apart after telling them. I had such a rush of grief, anger, and shame at not being able to protect them from this hell we were forced to stay in for so many years.

I envy those people who remain friendly enough to truly partner in raising their children. It is not possible with chronic denial abetted by well meaning people, especially when the drama induced by constant denial goes on for years, beyond the straight spouses control, with no escape except the eventual aging of children. The need to prove the straight spouse is crazy, irrelevant, or to intimidate her into shutting up is very strong.

As for the clergyman, I think he thought this crisis would end with divorce. It didn't, and he was in the awkward position of ministering to both of us for years. As he got more involved in gay rights, he avoided me, although I tried to let him know about the great resource of the straight spouse network.

Our kids are adults now and have a positive relationship with their dad, but they recognize that they cannot depend on him for much, and that he is extremely self centered. I have a new life in a new home, a new state, and a new church - and I moved less than three weeks after the youngest graduated from high school.

It has been a long hard road full of mud, smears, potholes, stumbles, pain,isolation, and unending shame for being so awful as to live the truth that no one wanted to acknowledge. But I finally live the truth freely now, and so do my children. I would not change what I did for anything.

Carol Grever

Janet, your story encourages us that it is possible to survive the crisis (even one that goes on for years) and to reconstruct a better life. It also shows that every family's situation is a bit different. There are no cookie-cutter answers that always apply when we deal with human emotions and family relations. You worked out your path as well as you could. The good news is that truth really does set us free. Joy and peace can fill the final chapter, even if all the details aren't perfect.

Carol Grever

Yvonne

Carol -- this is a topic I've wrestled privately with for over 25 years now. What about our adult (now) daughters?

You said: "Truth binds. Secrecy separates. After keeping her gay husband’s secret for decades, one straight wife suffered greatly from her daughter’s simmering anger about the family’s long-held secret. The adult daughter accepted her father’s homosexuality but harshly blamed her mother for not sharing the truth."

When I learned about my husband's orientation in 1984, our daughter was 3-1/2 years old. I didn't even know gay people would marry, could have sex and produce children. I wrongly assumed I made him gay; he did nothing to deny that assumption. We agreed to stay married; he agreed to stop visiting gay porn shops and buying magazines and books, and I agreed to keep his secret. I began living a lie as well, which is ironic, as it is what he said he felt he was doing.

We produced a 2nd daughter three years later. And, I kept the secret even as the marriage deteriorated just below the surface. I never have brought that subject up again, as was another of my promises to him for his staying straight. My fear now is of his years of pent up frustration and anger--of what he would do if I bring up that long-buried topic. That fear and denial on my part manifested itself in anxiety disorders, depression, and a host of other medical side-effects.

Now, those girls are adults of 27 and 21. . . and they still do not know. We are still married [over 30 years], but without any intimacy for 8 years. Communication is long gone. We "fake" it in public. I took my rings off two years ago. The girls know we are having marital problems, but nothing else.

Making things worse is the fact that both of us are still closeted to each other at home. The elephant is there, but neither of us mention it. I have been in therapy for nearly three years working through this--after 22-1/2 years in his closet. When I came out for help in October 2006, I was afraid I'd either go insane or commit suicide.

And, still our daughters do not know. Now, the older is back home along with her 2-year-old son, separated from her husband. And, so the years go on.

Yes, I deeply fear disclosure to the girls. Honesty and intregity were things I demanded of my girls; yet, look at me! My gay husband will not be the one to tell them--it will likely fall to me when we divorce [financial issues are a huge concern now]. What will they think of my keeping this secret all their existence?

Jerry J Bigner, PhD

If at all possible, the person who is coming out as the gay or lesbian parent should take the responsibility of disclosing their orientation to children rather than the spouse. This should only be done when the gay or lesbian spouse feels adequate about themselves and unashamed or not guilty about their entire situation.

Our research has shown that if this can take place in a healthy, positive manner, i.e., not because of guilt or fear, then children can develop a more positive relationship with their gay or lesbian parent. Studies have shown that the chances of having a positive relationship with children diminish when the gay or lesbian parent chooses to remain in the closet rather than disclosing to the children. We do not know of any studies that have examined the effects of dislosing by a spouse on children's relationship with their gay or lesbian parent.

It would be ideal if the spouse can work with the gay or lesbian parent to be supportive to children in the time following disclosure. Coming out is a critical family event that can become a crisis if handled in an emotionally negative manner. Many spouses are experiencing anger as part of their grieving process. They should avoid disclosing their gay or lesbian spouses' orientation to children when experiencing this emotional state.

When the gay or lesbian parent discloses to their child/ren, children have an opportunity to see their parent acting in a responsible manner rather than encouraging the development of a family secret. Therapists discourage families from acquiring and keeping secrets because of the insidious ability of these to eat away at family integrity over time. Coming out to children is extremely frightening for most gay and lesbian parents because they fear that they will lose their children's love. Granted, many children will not welcome this news but most will not react by rejecting their gay or lesbian parent outright. We caution the disclosing parent not to work for nor expect children's approval or acceptance of this news upon disclosure but to work toward being honest and demonstrating personal integrity to children.

Carol's text has some good guidelines for disclosing to children. I wrote guidelines some time ago with a pioneering researcher, Fred Bozett, that still remain workable today [Bigner, J. J., & Bozett, F. W. (1990). Parenting by gay fathers. Marriage and Family Review, 14, 155-176]. The COLAGE Web site also contains excellent advice to gay and lesbian parents on coming out to children. There are also many excellent therapists and counselors who have training in assisting families deal with this family matter in a positive and healing manner.

Carol Grever

Yvonne, Jerry Bigner's advice here is on target and comes from an expert in this field (he edited my latest book, WHEN YOUR SPOUSE COMES OUT). It strikes me that your marital history parallels that of the woman I wrote about in the "Endless Closet" section of Chapter 2 of that book. I would emphasize that telling grown children is probably easier than disclosing to younger children or teens. It's possible to relate as adults and rely on their maturity. They often respond with surprising understanding and genuine empathy. The fact that your daughter is living back at home may bring an opportunity to open the subject. Ideally, you and your husband can talk with her together. That was my own experience, and I was amazed at the acceptance we received from both of our sons. Best wishes to you, whatever you decide to do.
Carol Grever

Yvonne


My sincere thanks to both Dr. Bigner and Carol Grever for your time and your wonderful comments. I ordered Carol's book, which came in the mail yesterday, and I read up through Chapter 3 last night.

I wanted to make sure I read the section on the "Endless Closet". Yes, in many respects, theirs is similar to my life except that, unlike Kaye and Jim, we not only are closeted from the world but from each other as well.

I was absolutely horrified and physically ill at disclosure and wanted what I saw and learned to go away. Yet, as horrified and confused as I was, I also was so tremendously devoted to him. My fear was the ridicule he'd endure from friends, family, and the world. And, what about our daughter? What would happen to her? I wanted to protect him and her more than anything.

So, I slammed Pandora's box shut. He asked for my total secrecy, i.e., no counseling. So we struck a bargain: my silence and to never bring it up again in exchange for his stopping with the gay porn and other activities.

What I hadn't realized is that trust evaporated at that instant, and I never have been able to fully trust him again. That bothered me more than anything and ate my soul. I felt it was a fault of mine, as he appeared to have repressed his orientation. Or maybe he hasn't, as his deception was so good. I never had any "ah-ha" revelations; disclosure didn't explain any oddities.

He appears determined to stay closeted but has resorted to passive-aggressive tactics with me. Why is he content to live that way? I guess maybe it's like you said in that chapter, Carol. "seems better to live with the familiar pain of duplicity . . . rather than risk something worse". Why am I living this way? Finances and no-fault divorce; consultation with two different lawyers indicate I'll take the hit financially long term. My 401K and pension.

So, I'm much like "Kaye", living in emotional isolation with my physical and mental health taking the brunt of disclosure. Why I never thought to seek out others eludes me. Ironically, I only found SSN on a link on the company-supported gay/lesbian/bisexual website where I work. That was my "ah-ha" moment--I learned I was a Straight Spouse.

Claire Walter

Wow! These are powerful stories.

My straight ex-husband has a gay brother. From the time my son was born, he knew that "Uncle Jock" and "Uncle Eric" were as much a pair as "Aunt Cindy and Uncle Jack." Even during his rocky teen years, my son has never had issues with gay couples, though I suppose if I or my ex were gay, it might be more personal for him.

From my distant (and yet perhaps objective) corner, it seems that if youngsters grow up knowing people who reflect sexual diversity, their acceptance level might be greater.

Just a theory.

Carol Grever

Claire, I couldn't agree more! My sincere hope is that the next generation will have the understanding and tolerance you've described. We fear the unknown. If we have opportunity to know people all across the spectrum of sexual identity, we learn that we are more alike than different. We learn to value diversity and accept others who differ from ourselves. Ignorance and intolerance are the real threats. Thanks for your encouragement.
Carol Grever

Carol Grever

This comment is for Yvonne (re July 8). I'm thrilled that you've found an outlet on this blog to read and write about straight spouse issues. It's hard to imagine the depth of your hidden anguish when you were completely isolated with the family's secret. Even if nothing else changes for you, this communication with others who understand your challenges should be beneficial. As Astraea mentioned in one of her posts, we'll "hold you in the light," and think of you often.
Carol Grever

Yvonne

Carol - this is a followup on a post I made in June 09. I thought you might be interested to know that I learned just before Christmas that my younger daughter in Wisconsin (now 22) learned the truth about her father's orientation. She didn't figure it out, hear it from anyone, or learn it from him. She found out from me--and it was NOT in a way I would have wanted.

In mid-May, she was closing in on graduation from UWisconsin-Madison, and we were e-mailing regarding health care. Some of her e-mails got caught in my company's spam filter, so I gave her my private e-mail for my support group through the Straight Spouse Network. She knew my marriage was seriously troubled, and that I've been in private therapy and that I have a support group. That being said, never would it have occurred to me that she would learn about her father and our marriage by googling my e-mail address!

She said she just did it on a whim while taking a break for studying for her last exam. She wasn't trying to sleuth or anything--she just was curious as to what my support group might be about. She had made indirect comments previously that made me think she had questions or wanted to talk. I told her if she had questions, I would be happy to answer them as long as they were respectful and didn't infringe private boundaries.

My e-mail address for purposes of SSN posting is guaranteed private and incapable of being searched. She found one hit when she googled. In November 2008, Keith Olbermann did a commentary that was posted on the MSNBC website regarding Proposition 8. He mentioned the collateral damage of straight spouses and families. I felt compelled to thank him and tell him my story. Of course, the site made me register with my e-mail, but said it would not be visible. It did NOT, however, say it would not be searchable as an underlying link.

So, she held onto that discovery from graduation until just before Christmas, waiting for the right time to approach me. She said it literally blew her world apart and she freaked out for about 15-20 minutes. Thankfully, she had her fiance to reach out to, and he talked her through it. It also made her rethink her own plans to marry someone 16 years her senior. She is now moving out of their shared residence to experience life as a 22-yr-old, while still carrying on with the engagement. She said the two of them went to couples' counseling, and while that was positive, it really made her realize she has never lived on her own. So I guess there was some positive aspect to this revelation about her father. She emphasized that she is not gay, nor is her fiance, in case I was concerned. I was more concerned about him--not her.

The advice you and Dr. Bigner gave was that the gay parent come out to the child. Well, as you've read, that's not the case with my family. She is VERY supportive of what I've been through, saying she knew something was "off" between us since she was about 9 years old--comparing us to her friends' parents. THIS was not what she was expecting, however. She said her older sister (28) who lives with us does not know, and she felt it not a good time to let her know that either. She just recently went through a divorce.

Amazingly, my daughter said that she felt eventually "dad and you should divorce, because it's really not a good way to continue to live". This blew me away, as I never expected a blessing to move on with my life to come from a 22-yr-old.

Anyway, I thought you might be interested in how one of my offspring found out about her father's orientation. She remarked that she was not letting this change her relationship with him, and I said I was hoping that would be the case. I did not want that part of their lives to change.

If you want so see the post she found, let me know, and I'll post it separately. If she were to find one, it was probably perfect. I was brief, respectful of their father, and shared what living closeted feels like.

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Yvonne

Carol Grever

You must feel relieved that your daughter has reacted to her discovery in such an encouraging and loving way. I think that older offspring often already KNOW at some level and that prompts their deeper probing. Her seemingly casual investigation of your support group, leading to her discovery of her father's sexuality was probably not accidental. Her subsequent intention to stay close to her father while encouraging you and supporting eventual divorce shows her maturity and good judgment. If you wish, our readers might benefit from your posting the message your daughter discovered.

Thank you for continuing this conversation. It is useful to many! My hope is that the added support from your wise daughter will ease your burden somewhat.

Carol Grever

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